[Gimp-user] non-destructive editing

[gimp_user]

On Thursday 04 October 2007 03:41:05 Michael Schumacher wrote:
> > Von: gimp_user <david at atf4.com>
> >
> > If you regard my contributions as noise then please do not waste you time
> > reading them unless you are trolling to start a flame war. If so you will
> > not be successful here because I will follow a policy I have followed
> > over 30 years on mail lists -- keep on topic and, apart from making a
> > polite qrequest to keep on topic,  ignore trolling provocations designed
> > to take threads off topic by making personal comments.
>
> Then what do you do if the topic you keep on to can be regarded as
> a trolling provocation?
>
> I'm not sure if many do still follow this thread. If you want to get back
> on track, you should probably provide a short summary, for example:
>
> - who is your intended target audience
> - what are you trying to tell them
> - what do you expect from them
>
>
> Also, it would be interesting to know if you are aware of the future plans
> for GIMP.
>
In response to your questions:

1. As far as your trolling remark I cannot see what is in the heads of others 
and I would strongly recomend the policy I adopt. 

It has kept me out of flame wars for over thirty years. There are always 
people on the net  with strange agendas who get offended for no rational 
reason. 

I remember a classic case on a mailing list (using email on on a uucp system) 
in 1978 when someone used the words "this project has been aborted" and there 
was a whole string of responses objecting to the language - it went on for 
weeks and nobody seemed to think of anything else.

People who are easily offended respond irrationally and suspect others of 
underhand motives.  They usuially are unable to take what people say at face 
value. So I tend to feel a little sorry for them rather than take personal 
offense.

I am not responsible for how others respond and I try and respond to 
irrationality by ignoring the dross and concentrating on on-topic elements. 
If you really think I am trolling then you are fee to ignore my contributions 
safe in the knowledge I will not treat anyone else with unwarranted 
suspicions or encourage flame wars!!.

As far as your other questions:

1. The audience is those that I respond to or respond to me and either discuss 
or answer on topic. 
2. What is in my contributions.. 
3. Only what they want to offer. What I like to see is openess, integrity, 
humanity and respect for others (preferably including myself).

I interpret your questioning  as an indication you suspect I have some kind of 
agenda that goes beyond what I say. lf you are harbouring such suspicions 
then they are misplaced. My response to the interpretation is to wonder what 
your responses tell me about you.

All  I can say is I am at a stage in life (around 70)  when I have seen much 
come and go and have benefited artistically from the contributions of many. I 
like to give back a bit and know that creativity does not come without a 
struggle.

As far as the future plans of Gimp I read the technical  detail but find it 
hard to put my finger on a sense of mission that enables me to place its 
future in context. However my focus here is on what I and other users can do 
now with the tools that are available. Artistically I need to solve my 
challenges with the tools I have and understand what they can and cannot do 
for me. So for me, being firmly, as far as Gimp is concerned, on the user 
side, I am not therefore too concerned about plans but am glad to hear that 
16bit is on the agenda along with non-destructive editing. When it comes 
along I will be the first to try it and assess both its potentials and its 
limitations. 

When I paint I do not use a fine camel hair brush to put on large swathes of 
thick paint and the brush manufacturer would not feel the least offended if I 
told a student "hey you might want to use a palette knife here". The brush 
manufacturer would know that if I saw a student trying to do something with a 
palette knife that would be better done with a camel hair brush I would be 
equally honest in the reverse direction.

Watching this list (which I have done for many years)  I wonder if the Core 
tem developing Gimp are a little too emotionally committed to the toolset and 
are not able to see that good tools are pushed to their very limit by users 
and that during his/her development good artists need to know where the 
limits are. Developers, by definition , are primarily interested in what is 
coming -- after all that is only to be expected because they are creating 
it!! 

On the other hand users are focused not on the plans for Gimp but on what they 
can and cannot  do with Gimp NOW!!

FWIW I wonder whether Gimp developers all too easily misinterpret user 
discussion of current limits as a critique of Gimp. Some even react as though  
developers themselves are under attack. Having both technical and artistic 
background I see such discussion as  an artistic necessity, an appreciation 
of the toolset and an expression of user desire to get the best out of a 
valuable tool. IMHO they should see such discussion for what it is - an 
appreciation of the tool and a determination to press the current version to 
its limits. Developers need to understand users can only use a tool with 
confidence when they undertand the implications of its limitations - so 
discussion of limitations is to be encouraged rather than worried about!!