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Today's Topics:

   1. proposal for new site structure (Ronnie Tucker)
   2. Re: proposal for new site structure (Sven Neumann)

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Message: 1
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 01:05:41 +0000
From: Ronnie Tucker 
Subject: [Gimp-web] proposal for new site structure
To: gimp-web at lists.xcf.berkeley.edu
Message-ID: <200703090105.42228.ronnie at ronnietucker.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain;  charset="iso-8859-1"

> A Wiki doesn't need to be editable by everyone. Just like with any other
> content management system, you can create accounts for a group of
> authors and no one else will be able to edit the site. The advantage is
> that it is very easy to use and doesn't require potential authors to
> learn yet another CMS.
>...
> Look at it this way: We have a system that is installed, ready to use.
> Authors and publishers can already add information to our web-site and
> edit what's there. Still there aren't many contributions. What is Joomla
> going to change about that? In my opinion it is much more important to
> focus on content and structure. The choice of the CMS shouldn't be the
> major aspect of a redesign.

Ah, sorry. I didn't realise you had a CMS already in place.

> Again, how are people supposed to work with the authors of the
> user-manual without talking to them? And that effectively means being
> subscribed to the gimp-docs mailing-list. Seriously, if someone isn't
> willing to go through a little hassle to volunteer, then maybe there
> isn't really that much interest to contribute?

You have a point there but still, people shouldn't really need to jump through 
hoops to be able to offer a little help. Every little helps. Just having an 
email address that would give a quick response would be enough... ?

> I agree. But how do you propose that this is being changed? You said you
> don't want a public Wiki. So people willing to volunteer will have to
> ask for an account on the web-site?
> Currently you can at least checkout the web-site from Subversion, build
> it locally, edit pages and prepare patches. Something that you probably
> won't be able to do if we switch to a more dynamic CMS.

My fault, I didn't realise your site was already a CMS. Sorry...

> Getting more downloads is really not a priority of the GIMP project. We
> are trying to make good software and we like to have fun working on it.
> More downloads doesn't do much to improve the fun we have in developing
> GIMP.

True, but I just think that GIMP is such a good piece of software that it 
deserves to have more users. More people need to realise that Photoshop is 
not the be all and end all that most think it is...

> But yes, I would love to see the web-site being redesigned and I agree
> with a lot of points you have brought up. I am also not saying that the
> next generation of gimp.org shouldn't be using Joomla. I just haven't
> seen a compelling argument for it yet and I am missing a decent proposal
> for the structure and content of the new website.

Using the CMS you have, redesigning the graphics and updating the information, 
here's the structure i was thinking of (with some brief notes) :

index/News
(latest news from developers etc)

 Screens
 (grabs of current and future versions)

 Features
 (list main features of GIMP by pointing out relevant buttons on the GIMP 
toolbar(s)
  Gimp in Film (etc)

 History
 (would replace About and include History sections in one page)

 Downloads
 (one page with anchors to each edition)
  Source
  Linux/Unix
  Windows
  MacOSX

 Documentation
 (help files, online documentation etc)
  Books
  Tutorials
  (have screens of what each tutorial will accomplish)
  Mailing Lists
  (update current info)

 Get Involved
 (point to mailing lists, webmaster email, IRC, hacking, development, 
documentation)
  Donating
  Bug Reports
  GIMP Goods
  (include images of the products) 

 Links
 (organise links here and from other pages)

Rather than describe things, i like to show people things so pages would 
include more graphics than the site currently uses but it would NOT be too 
graphical! I only have .5mb broadband myself and I hate graphic heavy/flash 
sites! I realise (the hard way) that not everyone in the world has mega-fast 
broadband...

Sorry for the misunderstanding, with no visible login page or php pages I just 
(foolishly, I admit) assumed that the pages were all basic HTML and probably 
created from a template.

-- 
Cheerio!
Ronnie

e : ronnie at RonnieTucker.co.uk
w : www.RonnieTucker.co.uk

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2007 08:28:25 +0100
From: Sven Neumann 
Subject: Re: [Gimp-web] proposal for new site structure
To: ronnie at ronnietucker.co.uk
Cc: gimp-web at lists.xcf.berkeley.edu
Message-ID: <1173425305.26932.10.camel at bender>
Content-Type: text/plain

Hi,

On Fri, 2007-03-09 at 01:05 +0000, Ronnie Tucker wrote:

> You have a point there but still, people shouldn't really need to jump through 
> hoops to be able to offer a little help. Every little helps. Just having an 
> email address that would give a quick response would be enough... ?

Who is supposed to handle these emails? Do you even have a vague idea
how much support requests, frequently asked questions and spam such an
email account would get? We don't have people in a support center that
are being paid to handle such junk.

> > Currently you can at least checkout the web-site from Subversion, build
> > it locally, edit pages and prepare patches. Something that you probably
> > won't be able to do if we switch to a more dynamic CMS.
> 
> My fault, I didn't realise your site was already a CMS. Sorry...

I think that it might help to look at the current web site, also from a
technical point of view, before you propose a replacement.

> Using the CMS you have, redesigning the graphics and updating the information, 
> here's the structure i was thinking of (with some brief notes) :
> 
> index/News
> (latest news from developers etc)
> 
>  Screens
>  (grabs of current and future versions)
> 
>  Features
>  (list main features of GIMP by pointing out relevant buttons on the GIMP 
> toolbar(s)
>   Gimp in Film (etc)
> 
>  History
>  (would replace About and include History sections in one page)
> 
>  Downloads
>  (one page with anchors to each edition)
>   Source
>   Linux/Unix
>   Windows
>   MacOSX
> 
>  Documentation
>  (help files, online documentation etc)
>   Books
>   Tutorials
>   (have screens of what each tutorial will accomplish)
>   Mailing Lists
>   (update current info)
> 
>  Get Involved
>  (point to mailing lists, webmaster email, IRC, hacking, development, 
> documentation)
>   Donating
>   Bug Reports
>   GIMP Goods
>   (include images of the products) 
> 
>  Links
>  (organise links here and from other pages)

Thanks for the nice proposal. Looks good to me.

> Sorry for the misunderstanding, with no visible login page or php pages I just 
> (foolishly, I admit) assumed that the pages were all basic HTML and probably 
> created from a template.

Did I say that they aren't? I also did not say that we should continue
to use our current system. I don't like it very much either. But it
would be worthwhile to look at it and realise the pros and cons. One of
the good things of the current system is that the content on the
web-server is static. That has proven to make it a lot easier to keep
the server going whenever GIMP ends up being discussed on slashdot and
similar sites.

Sven

------------------------------

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End of Gimp-web Digest, Vol 37, Issue 4
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